Buku lofalitsidwa pa intaneti la ku America linachita zokambirana ndi wolemba buku la "Eating Animals" Jonathan Safran Foer. Wolembayo akufotokoza za malingaliro okonda zamasamba ndi zolinga zomwe zidamupangitsa kuti alembe bukuli.
Grist: Wina angayang'ane pa bukhu lanu ndikuganiza kuti wamasamba wina akufuna kundiuza kuti ndisadye nyama ndikundiwerengera ulaliki. Kodi buku lanu mungalifotokoze bwanji kwa omwe amakayikira?
Pamaso: Lili ndi zinthu zimene anthu amafunadi kudziwa. Inde, ndikumvetsa chikhumbo ichi choyang'ana, koma osati kuwona: Ine ndekha ndimakumana nazo tsiku ndi tsiku pokhudzana ndi zinthu zambiri ndi mavuto. Mwachitsanzo, akamaonetsa nkhani inayake pa TV yonena za ana amene akuvutika ndi njala, ndimaganiza kuti: “Mulungu wanga, kuli bwino nditembenuke msana, chifukwa mwina sindichita zimene ndiyenera kuchita.” Aliyense amamvetsetsa zifukwa izi - chifukwa chake sitifuna kuzindikira zinthu zina.
Ndamva ndemanga zochokera kwa anthu ambiri amene awerengapo bukhuli – anthu amene sasamala kwambiri za nyama – anangodabwa ndi gawo la bukhuli limene limanena za thanzi la anthu. Ndalankhula ndi makolo ambiri omwe awerenga bukuli ndipo andiuza kuti sakufunanso kudyetsa ana awo.
Tsoka ilo, kunena za nyama m'mbiri yakale sikunali kuyankhula, koma mikangano. Inu mukudziwa bukhu langa. Ndili ndi zikhulupiriro zamphamvu ndipo sindizibisa, koma sindimaona kuti buku langa ndi mtsutso. Ndikuganiza kuti ndi nkhani - ndimafotokoza nkhani za moyo wanga, zisankho zomwe ndinapanga, chifukwa chiyani kukhala ndi mwana kunandichititsa kuti ndisinthe maganizo anga pa zinthu zina. Ndi kukambirana chabe. Anthu ambiri amapatsidwa mawu m'buku langa - alimi, omenyera ufulu, akatswiri a zakudya - ndipo ndinkafuna kufotokoza momwe nyama iliri yovuta.
Grist: Munatha kufotokoza zifukwa zotsutsa kudya nyama. Chifukwa cha kusoŵa chilungamo ndi kusalingana m’mafakitale a zakudya padziko lapansi, n’chifukwa chiyani munaika maganizo pa nyama?
Pamaso: Pazifukwa zingapo. Choyamba, mabuku ambiri akufunika kuti afotokoze dongosolo lathu la kugaya chakudya m’njira yoyenera, momveka bwino. Ndinayenera kale kusiya zambiri ndikungolankhula za nyama kuti ndipange buku lothandiza komanso loyenera kuwerenga mosiyanasiyana.
Inde, pali zinthu zambiri zopanda chilungamo padzikoli. Koma nyama ndi mutu wapadera. Mu dongosolo la chakudya, ndi lapadera chifukwa ndi nyama, ndipo nyama zimatha kumva, pamene kaloti kapena chimanga sichikhoza kumva. Zimachitika kuti nyama ndi njira yoyipa kwambiri yodyera anthu, chilengedwe komanso thanzi la munthu. Nkhaniyi ndi yofunika kuiganizira mwapadera.
Grist: M'bukuli, mukunena za kusowa kwa chidziwitso chokhudza nyama, makamaka pankhani yazakudya. Kodi anthu alibe chidziwitso chokhudza izi?
Pamaso: Mosakayikira. Ndimakhulupirira kuti buku lililonse limalembedwa chifukwa wolemba mwiniyo akufuna kuliwerenga. Ndipo monga munthu amene ndalankhula za nkhaniyi kwa nthawi yaitali, ndinkafuna kuŵerenga zinthu zimene zimandisangalatsa. Koma kunalibe mabuku oterowo. Vuto la omnivore limayandikira mafunso ena, koma osawafufuza. Zomwezo zitha kunenedwanso za Fast Food Nation. Komanso, pali mabuku, ndithudi, operekedwa mwachindunji ku nyama, koma ali okhwima kwambiri anzeru kuposa, monga ndanenera, zokambirana kapena nkhani. Ngati bukhu loterolo likanakhalapo - o, ndikanakhala wokondwa chotani nanga kusagwira ntchito ndekha! Ndimakonda kwambiri kulemba mabuku. Koma ndinkaona kuti n’kofunika.
Grist: Chakudya chimakhala ndi malingaliro ambiri. Mukunena za mbale ya agogo anu, nkhuku yokhala ndi kaloti. Kodi mukuganiza kuti nkhani zamunthu ndi momwe akumvera mumtima mwathu ndi chifukwa chomwe anthu mdera lathu amapewa kukambirana za komwe nyama imachokera?
Pamaso: Pali zifukwa zambiri za izi. Choyamba, zimakhala zosasangalatsa kuganiza ndi kulankhula za izo. Kachiwiri, inde, izi zamalingaliro, zamaganizidwe, mbiri yamunthu ndi kulumikizana zitha kukhala chifukwa. Chachitatu, chimakoma ndi fungo labwino, ndipo anthu ambiri amafuna kupitiriza kuchita zimene amasangalala nazo. Koma pali mphamvu zomwe zingatseke kukambirana za nyama. Ku America, ndizosatheka kuyendera mafamu komwe 99% ya nyama imapangidwa. Chidziwitso cha zilembo, chidziwitso chonyenga kwambiri, chimatilepheretsa kulankhula za zinthu izi. Chifukwa zimatipangitsa kuganiza kuti chilichonse ndi chabwino kuposa momwe zilili.
Komabe, ndikuganiza kuti izi ndi zokambirana zomwe anthu sali okonzeka, komanso amafuna kukhala nazo. Palibe amene amafuna kudya zomwe zimamupweteka. Sitikufuna kudya zinthu zomwe zili ndi kuwonongeka kwa chilengedwe zomwe zimapangidwira muzamalonda. Sitikufuna kudya zakudya zomwe zimafuna kuvutika kwa nyama, zomwe zimafuna kusinthidwa kwamisala. Izi sizinthu zaufulu kapena zotsatiridwa. Palibe amene akufuna izi.
Nditangoganiza zokhala wosadya zamasamba, ndinachita mantha kwambiri: “Izi zisintha moyo wanga wonse, osadya nyama! Ndili ndi zinthu zambiri zoti ndisinthe!” Kodi munthu amene akuganiza zopita ku vegan angagonjetse bwanji chotchinga ichi? Ndikhoza kunena kuti musaganize ngati kupita vegan. Ganizirani izi ngati njira yodyera nyama yochepa. Mwinamwake njirayi idzatha ndi kukana kwathunthu kwa nyama. Ngati anthu a ku America akanasiya kudya nyama imodzi pa sabata, zikanakhala ngati mwadzidzidzi magalimoto ocheperapo 5 miliyoni m'misewu. Izi ndi ziwerengero zochititsa chidwi kwambiri zomwe ndikuganiza kuti zitha kulimbikitsa anthu ambiri omwe amamva ngati sangathe kudya nyama yocheperako. Kotero ine ndikuganiza ife tiyenera kuchoka ku chinenero chosokoneza, absolutist kupita ku chinachake chomwe chimasonyeza mkhalidwe weniweni wa anthu m'dziko lino.
Grist: Ndinu wowona mtima pofotokoza zovuta zanu potsatira zakudya zamasamba. Kodi chinali cholinga cholankhula za izi m'buku kuti mudzithandize kusiya kuthamangira uku ndi uku?
M'mbuyo: Ndi zoona basi. Ndipo chowonadi ndicho mthandizi wabwino koposa, chifukwa anthu ambiri amanyansidwa ndi lingaliro la cholinga china chomwe akuganiza kuti sadzachikwaniritsa. Pokambirana za zamasamba, munthu sayenera kupita patali. N’zoona kuti zinthu zambiri nzolakwika. Zolakwika basi ndi zolakwika ndi zolakwika. Ndipo palibe kutanthauzira pawiri apa. Koma cholinga chimene anthu ambiri amene amasamala za nkhaniyi ndi kuchepetsa kuvutika kwa nyama ndikupanga dongosolo la chakudya lomwe lingaganizire zofuna za chilengedwe. Ngati izi zilidi zolinga zathu, ndiye kuti tiyenera kupanga njira yomwe ikuwonetsa izi bwino momwe tingathere.
Grist: Pankhani ya vuto la kudya nyama kapena ayi, ndi kusankha kwaumwini. Nanga malamulo a boma? Ngati boma lidayendetsa malonda a nyama mokhazikika, mwina kusintha kungabwere mwachangu? Kodi kusankha kwaumwini ndikokwanira kapena kukhala gulu lochita zandale?
Pamaso: Zoonadi, onse ali mbali ya chithunzi chomwecho. Boma likhala likukokera kumbuyo nthawi zonse chifukwa ali ndi udindo wothandizira makampani aku America. Ndipo 99% yamakampani aku America ndi alimi. Ma referendum angapo ochita bwino kwambiri achitika posachedwapa m'madera osiyanasiyana a dziko. Pambuyo pake, mayiko ena, monga Michigan, adakhazikitsa zosintha zawo. Choncho ntchito zandale zimagwiranso ntchito, ndipo mtsogolomu tidzawona kuwonjezeka kwake.
Grist: Chimodzi mwa zifukwa zomwe mudalembera bukuli chinali kukhala kholo lodziwa zambiri. Makampani opanga zakudya mwachisawawa, osati nyama zokha, amawononga ndalama zambiri pa malonda okhudza ana. Kodi mumamuteteza bwanji mwana wanu kuti asakopeke ndi malonda otsatsa zakudya, makamaka nyama?
Pamaso: Chabwino, ngakhale ili si vuto, ndi laling'ono kwambiri. Koma ndiye tikambirana - tisamayerekeze kuti vuto kulibe. Tikambirana mitu imeneyi. Inde, m’kati mwa kukambitsirana, iye angafike pamalingaliro osiyana. Angafune kuyesa zinthu zosiyanasiyana. Inde, iye akufuna - pambuyo pa zonse, iye ndi munthu wamoyo. Koma kunena zowona, tikuyenera kuchotsa zopusazi m'masukulu. Inde, zikwangwani za mabungwe oyendetsedwa ndi phindu, osati ndi cholinga chopangitsa ana athu kukhala ndi thanzi labwino, ziyenera kuchotsedwa kusukulu. Kuphatikiza apo, kukonzanso pulogalamu ya chakudya chamasana kusukulu kumangofunika. Siziyenera kukhala mosungiramo zinthu zonse za nyama zopangidwa m'mafamu. Kusukulu ya sekondale, tisawononge kasanu pa nyama kuposa masamba ndi zipatso.
Grist: Nkhani yanu yokhudzana ndi momwe ulimi umagwirira ntchito kumapangitsa munthu kulota zoopsa. Kodi mungatsatire bwanji pouza mwana wanu zoona zokhudza nyama? Pamaso: Chabwino, zimangokupatsani maloto owopsa ngati mutenga nawo mbali. Mwa kusiya nyama, mutha kugona mwamtendere. Grist: Mwa zina, inu kulankhula za kugwirizana kwambiri ulimi ndi miliri yaikulu ya fuluwenza avian. Masamba oyambirira a zofalitsa zotchuka kwambiri amalankhula za chimfine cha nkhumba nthawi zonse. Mukuganiza kuti nchifukwa chiyani amapewa kulankhula za nyama ndi chimfine cha nkhumba?
Pamaso: Sindikudziwa. Asiyeni adziuze okha. Wina angaganize kuti pali kukakamizidwa kwa atolankhani kuchokera kumakampani olemera a nyama - koma momwe zilili, sindikudziwa. Koma zikuwoneka zachilendo kwa ine. Grist: Mumalemba m'buku lanu "omwe amadya nthawi zonse nyama zam'mafamu sangadzitchule kuti ndi osamalira zachilengedwe popanda kuchotsera tanthauzo la mawu awa." Kodi mukuganiza kuti akatswiri a zachilengedwe sanachite mokwanira kusonyeza kugwirizana pakati pa malonda a nyama ndi kusintha kwa nyengo padziko lapansi? Mukuganiza kuti achitenso chiyani? Pamaso: Mwachiwonekere, iwo sanachite mokwanira, ngakhale akudziwa bwino za kukhalapo kwa mphaka wakuda mu chipinda chamdima. Iwo samalankhula za izo kokha chifukwa chowopa kuti iwo akhoza kutaya chithandizo cha anthu mwa kuzibweretsa izo. Ndipo ndimamvetsa bwino mantha awo ndipo sindimawaona ngati opusa.
Sindidzawaukira chifukwa chosasamalira mokwanira nkhaniyi, chifukwa ndikuganiza kuti akatswiri a zachilengedwe akuchita ntchito yabwino ndikutumikira dziko lapansi bwino. Choncho, ngati atapita mozama muvuto limodzi - malonda a nyama - mwinamwake nkhani ina yofunika ingatengedwe mopepuka. Koma vuto la nyama tiyenera kuliona mozama. Ichi ndi chifukwa choyamba ndi chachikulu cha kutentha kwa dziko - si pang'ono, koma kwambiri patsogolo pa ena onse. Kafukufuku waposachedwapa wasonyeza kuti ziweto zimapanga 51% ya mpweya wowonjezera kutentha. Izi ndi 1% kuposa zifukwa zina zonse pamodzi. Ngati tilingalira mozama za zinthu izi, tifunika kukhala pachiwopsezo chokhala ndi zokambirana zosasangalatsa kwa ambiri.
Tsoka ilo, bukuli silinamasuliridwebe mu Chirasha, kotero tikukupatsani mu Chingerezi.