Kodi ndi mavuto otani aumwini amene angathetsedwe mwa kuphunzira za moyo, ndipo nchifukwa ninji Mulungu sayenera kubweretsedwa pabwalo? Kukambirana ndi Leonid Ogorodnov, mlembi wa njira ya agiodrama, yomwe imatembenuza 10 chaka chino.
Psychologies: "Agio" ndi Greek kuti "woyera", koma hagiodrama ndi chiyani?
Leonid Ogorodnov: Pamene njira iyi idabadwa, tidapanga moyo wa oyera mtima pogwiritsa ntchito psychodrama, ndiko kuti, kusintha kodabwitsa pa chiwembu china. Tsopano nditha kufotokozera hagiodrama mozama: ndi ntchito ya psychodramatic ndi Mwambo Wopatulika.
Kuphatikiza pa miyoyo, izi zikuphatikizapo kupanga zithunzi, zolemba za abambo oyera, nyimbo za tchalitchi, ndi zomangamanga. Mwachitsanzo, wophunzira wanga, katswiri wa zamaganizo Yulia Trukhanova, anaika mkati mwa kachisi.
Kuyika mkati - ndizotheka?
N'zotheka kuyika chirichonse chomwe chingaganizidwe ngati malemba mwatsatanetsatane, ndiko kuti, monga dongosolo lokonzekera la zizindikiro. Mu psychodrama, chinthu chilichonse chingapeze mawu ake, kusonyeza khalidwe.
Mwachitsanzo, kupanga «Kachisi» panali maudindo: khonde, kachisi, iconostasis, chandelier, khonde, masitepe ku kachisi. Wophunzirayo, yemwe adasankha udindo wa "Masitepe ku Kachisi", adawona chidziwitso: adazindikira kuti izi si masitepe okha, masitepe awa ndi otsogolera ku moyo wa tsiku ndi tsiku kupita ku dziko lopatulika.
Otenga nawo mbali pazopanga - ndi ndani?
Funso loterolo limakhudza chitukuko cha maphunziro, pamene omvera akutsimikiziridwa ndipo mankhwala amapangidwira. Koma sindinachite kalikonse. Ndinalowa mu hagiodrama chifukwa zinali zosangalatsa kwa ine.
Chotero ndinaika chilengezo, ndipo ndinaitananso anzanga ndi kunena kuti: “Bwerani, mungofunika kulipirira chipindacho, tiyeni tisewere ndi kuwona chimene chidzachitike.” Ndipo amenenso anali nacho chidwi anadza, anali ochuluka ndithu. Kupatula apo, pali opusa omwe ali ndi chidwi ndi zithunzi kapena opusa a Byzantine oyera azaka za zana la XNUMX. Zinali chimodzimodzi ndi hagiodrama.
Agiodrama - achire kapena maphunziro njira?
Osati kokha achire, komanso maphunziro: otenga nawo mbali osati kumvetsa, koma kupeza zodziwikiratu za chiyero, amene ndi atumwi, ofera chikhulupiriro, oyera mtima ndi ena oyera.
Pankhani ya psychotherapy, mothandizidwa ndi hagiodrama munthu angathe kuthetsa mavuto a maganizo, koma njira yothetsera izo imasiyana ndi yomwe inakhazikitsidwa mu psychodrama yachikale: poyerekeza ndi iyo, hagiodrama ndiyomwe ikusowa.
Agiodrama imakupatsani mwayi wotembenukira kwa Mulungu, kupitilira "Ine" yanu, kukhala woposa "Ine" yanu.
Mfundo yodziwitsa oyera mtima m'bwalo ndi chiyani, ngati mutha kungoyika amayi ndi abambo? Si chinsinsi kuti mavuto athu ambiri ndi okhudzana ndi ubale wa makolo ndi mwana. Yankho la mavuto amenewa lagona m'munda wathu «Ine».
Agiodrama ndi ntchito mwadongosolo ndi transcendental, mu nkhani iyi, chipembedzo, maudindo auzimu. "Transcendent" amatanthauza "kuwoloka malire". Zoonadi, malire apakati pa munthu ndi Mulungu atha kuwoloka ndi chithandizo cha Mulungu, popeza adakhazikitsidwa ndi Iye.
Koma, mwachitsanzo, pemphero ndi kulankhula kwa Mulungu, ndipo “pemphero” ndi ntchito yoposa chilengedwe. Agiodrama amakulolani kuti mumve kutembenuka uku, kupita - kapena kuyesa - kupyola malire anu "Ine", kukhala woposa "Ine".
Mwachiwonekere, chonulirapo choterocho chaikidwa kwa iwo eni makamaka ndi okhulupirira?
Inde, makamaka okhulupirira, koma osati kokha. Komabe «wachifundo», chidwi. Koma ntchitoyo imamangidwa mosiyana. Nthawi zambiri, ntchito ya hagiodramatic ndi okhulupirira imatha kutchedwa kukonzekera kwakukulu kwa Kulapa.
Okhulupirira ali ndi, mwachitsanzo, kukayikira kapena mkwiyo, kung'ung'udza motsutsana ndi Mulungu. Izi zimawalepheretsa kupemphera, kupempha kwa Mulungu: momwe ndingapangire pempho kwa munthu amene ndamukwiyira? Umu ndi momwe maudindo awiri amakhalira limodzi: gawo lopitilira muyeso la yemwe amapemphera komanso gawo lamalingaliro la wokwiyayo. Ndiyeno cholinga cha hagiodrama ndikulekanitsa maudindowa.
N’chifukwa chiyani kuli kothandiza kulekanitsa maudindo?
Chifukwa tikapanda kugawana nawo maudindo osiyanasiyana, ndiye kuti chisokonezo chimabuka mkati mwathu, kapena, m'mawu a Jung, "zovuta", ndiko kuti, kusakanikirana kwa zilakolako zauzimu zambiri. Yemwe amakumana naye izi sadziwa za chisokonezo ichi, koma amakumana nazo - ndipo izi ndizoyipa kwambiri. Ndipo kuchitapo kanthu pa udindo umenewu n'zosatheka.
Nthawi zambiri fano la Mulungu ndi hodgepodge ya mantha ndi ziyembekezo anasonkhanitsa kwa achibale ndi mabwenzi.
Ngati kuyesetsa kwa chifuniro kumatibweretsera chigonjetso cha nthawi imodzi, ndiye kuti "zovuta" zimabwerera ndipo zimakhala zowawa kwambiri. Koma ngati ife tilekanitsa maudindo ndi kumva mawu awo, ndiye ife tikhoza kumvetsa aliyense wa iwo ndipo, mwina, kugwirizana nawo. Mu classical psychodrama, cholinga choterocho chimayikidwanso.
Kodi ntchitoyi ikuyenda bwanji?
Kamodzi tinapanga moyo wa Great Martyr Eustathius Placis, yemwe Khristu adawonekera mu mawonekedwe a Gwape. Wothandizira paudindo wa Eustathius, akuwona Gwape, mwadzidzidzi adakhala ndi nkhawa kwambiri.
Ndinayamba kufunsa, ndipo zinapezeka kuti iye kugwirizana Deer ndi agogo ake: iye anali mkazi imperious, zofuna zake nthawi zambiri zimatsutsana wina ndi mzake, ndipo zinali zovuta kwa mtsikana kupirira izi. Pambuyo pake, tinasiya zochitika zenizeni za hagiodramatic ndikupita ku psychodrama yachikale pamitu yabanja.
Titathana ndi ubale pakati pa agogo ndi mdzukulu (maudindo amalingaliro), tinabwerera ku moyo, ku Eustathius ndi Deer (maudindo opitilira muyeso). Ndiyeno kasitomala kuchokera udindo wa woyera adatha kutembenukira kwa Deer ndi chikondi, popanda mantha ndi nkhawa. Motero, tinasudzulana maudindo, anapereka Mulungu - Bogovo, ndi agogo - agogo.
Nanga anthu osakhulupirira amathetsa mavuto otani?
Chitsanzo: Wopikisana nawo amamuitana kuti akhale woyera mtima wodzichepetsa, koma udindo wake suyenda. Chifukwa chiyani? Amaletsedwa ndi kunyada, komwe sanakayikire nkomwe. Chotsatira cha ntchito pankhaniyi sichingakhale yankho la vutoli, koma, m'malo mwake, mapangidwe ake.
Mutu wofunikira kwambiri kwa okhulupirira ndi osakhulupirira ndi kuchotsa zongoyerekeza kuchokera kwa Mulungu. Aliyense amene amadziwa pang'ono za psychology amadziwa kuti mwamuna kapena mkazi nthawi zambiri amasokoneza chithunzi cha mnzanu, kusamutsira maonekedwe a amayi kapena abambo kwa iye.
Chinachake chofanana chimachitika ndi chifaniziro cha Mulungu - nthawi zambiri amakhala mantha ndi ziyembekezo zomwe zimasonkhanitsidwa kuchokera kwa achibale ndi abwenzi. Mu hagiodrama titha kuchotsa zolosera izi, ndiyeno kuthekera kwa kulumikizana ndi Mulungu komanso ndi anthu kumabwezeretsedwa.
Munabwera bwanji ku hagiodrama? Ndipo chifukwa chiyani adasiya psychodrama?
Sindinapite kulikonse: Ndimatsogolera magulu a psychodrama, ndimaphunzitsa ndikugwira ntchito payekha ndi njira ya psychodrama. Koma aliyense mu ntchito yawo akufunafuna «chip», kotero ine ndinayamba kuyang'ana. Ndipo kuchokera pazomwe ndimadziwa ndikuwona, ndimakonda kwambiri mythodrama.
Kuphatikiza apo, zinali zozungulira zomwe zidandisangalatsa, osati nthano zapayekha, ndipo ndikofunikira kuti kuzungulira kotereku kutha ndi kutha kwa dziko: kubadwa kwa chilengedwe chonse, kubwera kwa milungu, kugwedeza kusakhazikika kwadziko lapansi, ndipo izo zinayenera kutha ndi chinachake.
Ngati tilekanitsa maudindo ndikumva mawu awo, tikhoza kumvetsa aliyense wa iwo ndipo, mwina, kugwirizana nawo
Zinapezeka kuti pali ochepa kwambiri machitidwe a nthano ngati amenewa. Ndinayamba ndi nthano za ku Scandinavia, kenako ndinasinthira ku "nthano" ya Chiyuda-Chikhristu, ndikukhazikitsa kuzungulira molingana ndi Chipangano Chakale. Kenako ndinaganizira za Chipangano Chatsopano. Koma ndinkakhulupirira kuti Mulungu sayenera kubweretsedwa pabwalo kuti asamuchititse kuti azingomunena, osati kunena kuti maganizo athu ndi zolinga zathu zili kwa Iye.
Ndipo mu Chipangano Chatsopano, Khristu amachita paliponse, momwe umulungu umakhala pamodzi ndi umunthu. Ndipo ndinaganiza: Mulungu sangakhoze kuikidwa - koma mukhoza kuika anthu omwe ali pafupi kwambiri ndi Iye. Ndipo awa ndiwo oyera mtima. Ndikayang'ana pa miyoyo ya «nthano» maso, Ndinadabwa awo kuya, kukongola ndi zosiyanasiyana matanthauzo.
Kodi hagiodrama yasintha chilichonse m'moyo wanu?
Inde. Sindinganene kuti ndakhala membala wa mpingo: sindine membala wa parishi iliyonse ndipo sinditenga nawo mbali pa moyo wa tchalitchi, koma ndimavomereza ndikudya mgonero osachepera kanayi pa chaka. Poona kuti nthaŵi zonse sindimakhala ndi chidziŵitso chokwanira chosunga mkhalidwe wa tchalitchi cha Orthodox, ndinapita kukaphunzira zaumulungu pa yunivesite ya St. Tikhon Orthodox Humanitarian.
Ndipo kuchokera kwa akatswiri, iyi ndi njira yodzizindikiritsa: ntchito mwadongosolo ndi maudindo opitilira muyeso. Izi ndi zolimbikitsa kwambiri. Ndidayesa kuyambitsa maudindo opitilira muyeso m'maganizo omwe si achipembedzo, koma sizinandigwire.
Ndine wokondweretsedwa ndi oyera. Sindikudziwa zomwe zidzachitike kwa woyera mtimayu popanga, zomwe wochita nawo gawoli apeza momwe amamvera komanso tanthauzo lake. Sipanakhalepo mlandu womwe sindinaphunzirepo chatsopano kwa ine ndekha.