“Kaŵirikaŵiri kuphunzira za kugonana kumalepheretsedwa ndi ochiritsa iwo eni, amene samadziŵa kokha kufunsa mafunso oyenera,” akutero katswiri wa zamaganizo Otto Kernberg. Tinakambirana naye za chikondi chokhwima, kugonana kwa ubwana, ndi kumene Freud analakwitsa.
Ali ndi mawonekedwe akuthwa komanso mawonekedwe olimbikira, ozama. Mu mpando waukulu wosemedwa wokhala ndi msana wamtali, amawoneka ngati Woland wa Bulgakov. Pokhapokha m'malo mwa gawo lamatsenga ndikuwonekera kotsatira, amafufuza mwatsatanetsatane milandu kuchokera ku machitidwe ake komanso machitidwe a psychotherapists omwe amapezeka pamsonkhanowo.
Koma pali china chake chamatsenga mosavuta chomwe Otto Kernberg amalowa mkati mwa nkhani yodabwitsa ngati kugonana. Iye adapanga chiphunzitso chamakono cha psychoanalytic cha umunthu ndi njira yake ya psychoanalytic, adapereka njira yatsopano yochizira matenda amtundu wamalire komanso mawonekedwe atsopano a narcissism. Ndiyeno mwadzidzidzi anasintha njira ya kafukufuku ndipo anadabwitsa aliyense ndi buku lonena za chikondi ndi kugonana. Kumvetsa wochenjera nuances wa wosakhwima maubwenzi akhoza kuchitira kaduka osati anzake maganizo, komanso ndakatulo, mwina.
Psychology: Kodi kugonana kwaumunthu ndikovomerezeka kumaphunziro asayansi?
Otto Kernberg: Zovuta zimayamba ndi kafukufuku wazinthu zakuthupi: ndikofunikira kuyang'ana odzipereka omwe ali okonzeka kupanga chikondi mu masensa, ndi zida zapadera komanso kuyang'aniridwa ndi asayansi. Koma kuchokera kumalingaliro amaganizo, sindikuwona mavuto aliwonse, kupatulapo chinthu chimodzi: akatswiri a maganizo ndi othandizira nthawi zambiri amachita manyazi kufunsa mafunso oyenerera okhudza moyo wa kugonana.
Akatswiri a zamaganizo? Osati makasitomala awo?
Kunena zoona! Sikuti makasitomala ali amanyazi, koma ma psychotherapists okha. Ndipo ndizopanda pake: ngati mufunsa mafunso oyenera omwe amatsatira pazokambirana, ndiye kuti mudzapeza zambiri zomwe mukufuna. Mwachiwonekere, asing'anga ambiri alibe chidziwitso ndi chidziwitso kuti amvetse ndendende mafunso okhudzana ndi kugonana kwa kasitomala ayenera kufunsidwa - komanso panthawi iti.
Ndikofunika kuti wochiritsayo akhale wanzeru, womasuka m'malingaliro, ndipo ali ndi kukhwima kokwanira. Koma panthawi imodzimodziyo, amafunikira luso la kuzindikira zokumana nazo zakale, osati kukhala zothina kwambiri ndi zochepa.
Kodi pali mbali za moyo zomwe zatsekedwa ku kafukufuku?
Zikuwoneka kwa ine kuti titha ndipo tiyenera kuphunzira chilichonse. Ndipo chopinga chachikulu ndi maganizo a anthu pa mawonetseredwe ena a kugonana. Si asayansi, psychoanalysts, kapena makasitomala omwe amalepheretsa kafukufuku wamtunduwu, koma anthu. Sindikudziwa momwe zilili ku Russia, koma ku USA lero, mwachitsanzo, ndizovuta kwambiri kuphunzira zonse zokhudzana ndi kugonana kwa ana.
Ubale wopitirira ukhoza kubweretsa kupindula kwa chikondi chokhwima cha kugonana. Kapena ayi
Chodabwitsa n’chakuti anali asayansi a ku America amene poyamba anali apainiya pa nkhani imeneyi. Koma yesani tsopano kupempha ndalama zofufuzira zokhudzana ndi kugonana kwa ana. Ngakhale zili bwino, sangakupatseni ndalama, ndipo choyipa kwambiri, angakufotokozereni apolisi. Choncho, kafukufuku wamtunduwu ndi pafupifupi kulibe. Koma ndizofunika kumvetsetsa momwe kugonana kumayambira pazaka zosiyanasiyana, makamaka momwe chilakolako chogonana chimapangidwira.
Ngati sitikulankhula za ana, koma za akuluakulu: ndi lingaliro lotani la chikondi cha kugonana okhwima, zomwe mumalemba zambiri, zokhudzana ndi zaka zamoyo?
M'lingaliro la thupi, munthu amakhwima m'chikondi cha kugonana ali wachinyamata kapena ali wamng'ono. Koma ngati akuvutika, mwachitsanzo, ndi vuto lalikulu la umunthu, ndiye kuti kufika msinkhu kumatenga nthawi yaitali. Panthawi imodzimodziyo, zochitika pamoyo zimagwira ntchito yofunika kwambiri, makamaka ikafika kwa anthu omwe ali ndi bungwe lachibadwa kapena la neurotic.
Mulimonsemo, munthu sayenera kuganiza kuti chikondi chokhwima chogonana ndi ubale womwe umapezeka kwa anthu azaka zopitilira 30 kapena kupitilira 40. Maubwenzi oterowo amapezeka ngakhale kwa azaka 20 zakubadwa.
Kamodzi ndinaona kuti mlingo wa munthu matenda a aliyense wa zibwenzi salola kulosera mmene moyo wawo pamodzi adzakhala. Zimachitika kuti anthu awiri athanzi mwamtheradi alumikizidwa, ndipo iyi ndi gehena weniweni. Ndipo nthawi zina onse awiri amakhala ndi vuto lalikulu la umunthu, koma ubale waukulu.
Kodi kukhala limodzi ndi bwenzi limodzi kumagwira ntchito yanji? Kodi maukwati atatu olephera "pamodzi" angapereke chidziwitso chofunikira chomwe chidzatsogolera ku chikondi chokhwima cha kugonana?
Ndikuganiza kuti ngati munthu amatha kuphunzira, ndiye kuti kuchokera ku zolephera amakokanso maphunziro ake. Chifukwa chake, ngakhale maukwati osapambana amathandizira kuti akhwime kwambiri ndikuwonetsetsa kuti ubale watsopano ukuyenda bwino. Koma ngati munthu ali ndi vuto lalikulu la maganizo, ndiye kuti saphunzira kanthu, koma amangopitirizabe kupanga zolakwika zomwezo kuchokera ku ukwati kupita ku ukwati.
Ubale wokhazikika ndi mnzako yemweyo ungathenso kubweretsa kukwaniritsidwa kwa chikondi chokhwima pakugonana. Kapena sangatsogolere - ndikubwerezanso: zambiri zimadalira mtundu wamagulu amalingaliro amunthu.
Ndi zinthu ziti zatsopano zomwe mumadziwa zokhudza chikondi ndi kugonana zomwe Freud, mwachitsanzo, sanadziwe kapena sakanatha kuzidziwa?
Tiyenera kuyamba ndi mfundo yakuti sitikumvetsa bwino zomwe Freud ankadziwa komanso zomwe sankadziwa. Iye mwini ananena kuti sanafune kulemba za chikondi mpaka zitasiya kukhala vuto kwa iye. Koma kotero, kwenikweni, iye sanalembe kalikonse. Momwe tinganene kuti sanathetse vutoli m'moyo wake wonse. Simuyenera kumuimba mlandu pa izi: pambuyo pake, uyu ndi munthu kwambiri ndipo sizosadabwitsa konse. Anthu ambiri sangathe kuthetsa vutoli moyo wawo wonse.
Koma malinga ndi sayansi, masiku ano timadziwa zambiri zokhudza chikondi kuposa Freud. Mwachitsanzo, ankakhulupirira kuti poika libido mu maubwenzi achikondi, timagwiritsa ntchito "zosungira" zake. Uku ndi chinyengo chakuya. Libido si mafuta kapena malasha, kotero kuti "zosungira" zake zikhoza kutha. Poikapo ndalama mu maubwenzi, timalemeretsa tokha nthawi yomweyo.
Freud ankakhulupirira kuti super-ego mwa akazi siinatchulidwe monga mwa amuna. Izinso ndikulakwitsa. Freud ankaganiza kuti kaduka ka mbolo ndi mphamvu yamphamvu yomwe imakhudza akazi. Ndipo izi ndi zoona, koma amuna amakhudzidwanso ndi nsanje ya chikhalidwe chachikazi, ndipo Freud ananyalanyaza izi. Mwachidule, psychoanalysis sinayime zaka zonsezi.
Mumatsutsa kuti ufulu muubwenzi wokhwima wogonana umakulolani kuchitira mnzanu ngati chinthu.
Ndikutanthauza kuti pokhudzana ndi kugonana kwabwino, kogwirizana, zikhumbo zonse zogonana zingathe kuphatikizidwa: mawonetseredwe a sadism, masochism, voyeurism, chiwonetsero, fetishism, ndi zina zotero. Ndipo wokondedwayo amakhala chinthu chokhutitsidwa ndi zokhumba izi zachisoni kapena masochistic. Izi ndizachilengedwe, zikhumbo zilizonse zogonana nthawi zonse zimakhala ndi chisakanizo cha zinthu zonyansa komanso zaukali.
Sikoyenera kuti anthu awiri azivotera munthu m'modzi pachisankho. Ndikofunikira kwambiri kukhala ndi malingaliro ofanana ponena za chabwino ndi choipa
Ndikofunika kukumbukira kuti mu ubale wokhwima, wokondedwa yemwe amakhala chinthu cha zikhumbozi amavomereza mawonetseredwe awo ndipo amasangalala ndi zomwe zikuchitika. Apo ayi, ndithudi, palibe chifukwa cholankhula za chikondi chokhwima.
Kodi mungakonde chiyani kwa achinyamata madzulo a ukwati?
Ndikanafuna kuti azisangalala komanso azisangalala. Osamangotengera malingaliro operekedwa pazabwino ndi zolakwika pakugonana, musaope kuganiza, kufunafuna ndikupeza chisangalalo. Kuphatikiza apo, ndikofunikira kuti moyo wawo watsiku ndi tsiku ukhazikike pazochitika zolakalaka. Kuti athe kugawana maudindo, palimodzi kuthetsa ntchito zomwe akukumana nazo.
Ndipo potsiriza, zingakhale zabwino ngati machitidwe awo amtengo wapatali sangagwirizane. Izi sizikutanthauza kuti ayenera kuvotera munthu yemweyo pa chisankho cha pulezidenti. Ndikofunikira kwambiri kuti akhale ndi malingaliro ofanana pazabwino ndi zoyipa, zokhumba zauzimu. Zitha kukhala maziko a dongosolo logwirizana la makhalidwe abwino, pamlingo wa banja linalake. Ndipo iyi ndiye maziko odalirika a mayanjano olimba komanso chitetezo chawo chodalirika.