Viktor Kagan ndi m'modzi mwa akatswiri azamisala komanso ochita bwino ku Russia. Atayamba kuchita masewera olimbitsa thupi ku St. Ndipo Viktor Kagan ndi filosofi ndi ndakatulo. Ndipo mwina ichi ndi chifukwa chake amatha kufotokozera mochenjera komanso molondola zomwe zimayambira pa ntchito ya katswiri wa zamaganizo, zomwe zimakhudzana ndi zinthu zobisika monga chidziwitso, umunthu - ngakhale moyo.
Psychology: Kodi, m'malingaliro anu, chasintha chiyani mu psychotherapy yaku Russia poyerekeza ndi nthawi yomwe mudayamba?
Victor Kagan: Ndinganene kuti anthu asintha poyamba. Ndipo zabwino. Ngakhale zaka 7-8 zapitazo, pamene ndinachititsa magulu kuphunzira (omwe psychotherapists okha chitsanzo milandu yeniyeni ndi njira ntchito), tsitsi langa linaima. Makasitomala omwe adabwera ndi zomwe adakumana nazo adafunsidwa za momwe zinthu zilili ngati wapolisi wakumaloko ndipo adawafotokozera machitidwe "olondola". Chabwino, zinthu zina zambiri zomwe sizingachitike mu psychotherapy zidachitika nthawi zonse.
Ndipo tsopano anthu amagwira ntchito "oyera" kwambiri, amakhala oyenerera, ali ndi zolemba zawo, iwo, monga akunena, amamva ndi zala zomwe akuchita, ndipo samayang'ana mmbuyo mosalekeza pamabuku ndi zithunzi. Amayamba kudzipatsa ufulu wogwira ntchito. Ngakhale, mwina, ichi si chithunzithunzi cholinga. Chifukwa amene amagwira ntchito movutikira nthawi zambiri sapita m’magulu. Alibe nthawi yophunzira ndi kukayikira, amafunika kupeza ndalama, ali opambana mwa iwo okha, ndi magulu ati omwe alipo. Koma kwa iwo omwe ndimawawona, mawonekedwe ake ndi otero - osangalatsa kwambiri.
Ndipo ngati tilankhula za makasitomala ndi mavuto awo? Kodi pali china chake chasintha apa?
VC.: Chakumapeto kwa zaka za m'ma 1980 komanso kumayambiriro kwa zaka za m'ma 1990, anthu omwe ali ndi zizindikiro zachipatala nthawi zambiri ankapempha thandizo: hysterical neurosis, asthenic neurosis, obsessive-compulsive disorder ... akunena chimodzimodzi - classical neurosis yakhala yosowa mumyuziyamu.
Mukuzifotokoza bwanji?
VC.: Ndikuganiza kuti mfundoyi ndikusintha kwapadziko lonse kwa moyo, komwe kumamveka kwambiri ku Russia. Gulu la Soviet Union linali ndi, zikuwoneka kwa ine, machitidwe awoawo oyitanira. Anthu oterewa tingawayerekeze ndi nyerere. Nyerere yatopa, siingathe kugwira ntchito, ikufunika kugona penapake kuti isamezedwe, itayidwe ngati mphutsi. M'mbuyomu, pamenepa, chizindikiro cha nyerere chinali ichi: Ndikudwala. Ndili ndi vuto lonjenjemera, ndili ndi khungu lonjenjemera, ndili ndi vuto la neurosis. Mwaona, nthawi ina akadzatumiza mbatata kukatola, adzandimvera chisoni. Ndiko kuti, kumbali imodzi, aliyense amayenera kukhala wokonzeka kupereka moyo wawo kwa anthu. Koma kumbali ina, gulu lomweli linafupa ozunzidwawo. Ndipo ngati anali asanakhale ndi nthawi yoti apereke moyo wake wonse, akhoza kumutumiza ku chipatala - kuti akalandire chithandizo chamankhwala.
Ndipo lero kulibe chiswe. Malamulo asintha. Ndipo ngati nditumiza chizindikiro chotero, ndimataya nthawi yomweyo. Kodi mukudwala? Choncho ndi vuto lanu, simukudzisamalira bwino. Ndipo kawirikawiri, n’chifukwa chiyani munthu ayenera kudwala pamene pali mankhwala odabwitsa chonchi? Mwina mulibe ndalama zokwanira kwa iwo? Kotero, simudziwa momwe mungagwire ntchito!
Tikukhala m'dera lomwe psychology imasiya kungokhala zochitika zokha ndipo zimadziwikiratu komanso moyo wokha. Izi sizingasinthe chilankhulo chomwe chimalankhulidwa ndi ma neuroses, ndipo microscope ya chidwi imapeza chigamulo chokulirapo, ndipo psychotherapy imasiya makoma a mabungwe azachipatala ndikumakula popereka uphungu kwa anthu omwe ali ndi thanzi labwino.
Ndipo ndani omwe angatengedwe ngati makasitomala wamba a psychotherapists?
VC.: Kodi mukuyembekezera yankho: «otopetsa akazi amalonda olemera»? Chabwino, ndithudi, iwo omwe ali ndi ndalama ndi nthawi ya izi ali okonzeka kupita ku chithandizo. Koma kawirikawiri palibe makasitomala wamba. Pali amuna ndi akazi, olemera ndi osauka, achikulire ndi ana. Ngakhale anthu akale akadali ofunitsitsa. Zodabwitsa ndizakuti, anzanga a ku America ndi ine tinakangana kwambiri pankhaniyi za nthawi yayitali yomwe munthu angakhale kasitomala wa psychotherapist. Ndipo adafika pozindikira kuti mpaka nthawi yomwe amamvetsetsa nthabwalazo. Ngati nthabwala imasungidwa, ndiye kuti mutha kugwira ntchito.
Koma ndi nthabwala zimachitika ngakhale paunyamata ndizoyipa ...
VC.: Inde, ndipo simudziwa kuti ndizovuta bwanji kugwira ntchito ndi anthu otere! Koma mozama, ndiye kuti, pali zizindikiro monga chisonyezero cha psychotherapy. Tinene kuti ndimaopa achule. Apa ndi pamene chithandizo cha khalidwe chingathandize. Koma ngati tilankhula za umunthu, ndiye ndikuwona mizu iwiri, zifukwa zopezekapo zotembenukira kwa psychotherapist. Merab Mamardashvili, wafilosofi yemwe ndili ndi ngongole zambiri pomvetsetsa munthu, analemba kuti munthu "akudzisonkhanitsa yekha". Amapita kwa psychotherapist pamene njirayi ikuyamba kulephera. Mawu amene munthu amawamasulira ndi osafunika kwenikweni, koma amaona ngati wachoka. Ichi ndi chifukwa choyamba.
Ndipo chachiwiri n’chakuti munthu ali yekha pamaso pa mkhalidwe wake umenewu, alibe wolankhula naye. Poyamba amayesa kudzifufuza yekha, koma amalephera. Kuyesera kulankhula ndi abwenzi - sizikugwira ntchito. Chifukwa chakuti mabwenzi muubwenzi ndi iye ali ndi zokonda zawo, sangakhale nawo mbali, amadzichitira okha, mosasamala kanthu kuti ali okoma mtima chotani. Mkazi kapena mwamuna sangamvetse, alinso ndi zofuna zawo, ndipo simungathe kuwauza zonse. Nthawi zambiri, palibe amene angalankhule naye - palibe amene angalankhule naye. Ndiyeno, pofunafuna moyo wamoyo womwe simungakhale nokha pavuto lanu, amadza kwa psychotherapist ...
…ntchito yandani imayamba ndikumumvera?
VC.: Ntchito imayambira kulikonse. Pali nthano zachipatala za Marshal Zhukov. Nthawi ina anadwala, ndipo, ndithudi, wounikira wamkulu anatumizidwa kunyumba kwake. Wowala anafika, koma marshal sanakonde. Anatumiza chowunikira chachiwiri, chachitatu, chachinayi, adathamangitsa aliyense ... Aliyense ali wotayika, koma ayenera kuthandizidwa, Marshal Zhukov pambuyo pake. Pulofesa wina wosavuta anatumizidwa. Iye anaonekera, Zhukov anapita kukakumana. Pulofesa akuponya chovala chake m'manja mwa marshal ndikulowa m'chipindamo. Ndipo pamene Zhukov, atapachika malaya ake, akulowa pambuyo pake, pulofesa akugwedeza mutu kwa iye: "Khala pansi!" Pulofesa uyu adakhala dotolo wa marshal.
Ndikunena izi kuti ntchito imayamba ndi chilichonse. Chinachake chimamveka m'mawu a kasitomala akamayimba, chinachake chimaoneka ngati iye akalowa ... Chida chachikulu chogwirira ntchito cha psychotherapist ndi psychotherapist mwiniyo. Ndine chida. Chifukwa chiyani? Chifukwa ndi zomwe ndimamva ndikuchita. Ngati nditakhala kutsogolo kwa wodwalayo ndipo msana wanga umayamba kupwetekedwa, ndiye kuti ndinachita ndekha, ndi ululu uwu. Ndipo ndili ndi njira zowonera, kufunsa - kodi zimapweteka? Ndi njira yamoyo mwamtheradi, thupi ndi thupi, kumveka kumveka, kukhudzika kwa kukhudzika. Ndine chida choyesera, ndine chida chothandizira, ndimagwira ntchito ndi mawu.
Komanso, pamene mukugwira ntchito ndi wodwala, n`zosatheka kuchita watanthauzo kusankha mawu, ngati mukuganiza za izo - mankhwala watha. Koma mwanjira ina inenso ndimachita. Ndipo m'lingaliro laumwini, ndimagwiranso ntchito ndi ine ndekha: Ndine womasuka, ndiyenera kupatsa wodwalayo yankho losaphunzira: wodwala nthawi zonse amamva pamene ndikuimba nyimbo yophunzira bwino. Ayi, ndiyenera kupereka ndendende zomwe ndikuchita, koma ziyeneranso kukhala zochizira.
Kodi zonsezi tingaphunzire?
VC.: Ndi zotheka ndi zofunika. Osati ku yunivesite, ndithudi. Ngakhale ku yunivesite mungathe ndipo muyenera kuphunzira zinthu zina. Kupambana mayeso a ziphaso ku America, ndidayamikira njira yawo yophunzirira. Katswiri wa zamaganizo, wothandizira zamaganizo, ayenera kudziwa zambiri. Kuphatikizapo thunthu ndi physiology, psychopharmacology ndi somatic matenda, zizindikiro zimene zingafanane ndi maganizo ... Chabwino, atalandira maphunziro maphunziro - kuphunzira psychotherapy palokha. Komanso, zingakhale bwino kukhala ndi zokonda pa ntchito yotere.
Kodi nthawi zina mumakana kugwira ntchito ndi wodwala? Ndipo pazifukwa zotani?
VC.: Zimachitika. Nthawi zina ndimangotopa, nthawi zina ndimamva m'mawu ake, nthawi zina zimakhala zovuta. Zimandivuta kufotokoza maganizo amenewa, koma ndaphunzira kukhulupirira. Ndiyenera kukana ngati sindingathe kugonjetsa malingaliro odziyesa munthu kapena vuto lake. Ndikudziwa kuchokera muzochitika kuti ngakhale nditayamba kugwira ntchito ndi munthu woteroyo, sitingapambane.
Chonde tchulani za "makhalidwe oyesa". Mu kuyankhulana kumodzi mudanena kuti ngati Hitler abwera kudzawonana ndi psychotherapist, wothandizirayo ndi womasuka kukana. Koma ngati akufuna kugwira ntchito, ndiye kuti ayenera kumuthandiza kuthetsa mavuto ake.
VC.: Ndendende. Ndipo kuwona pamaso panu osati Hitler woipa, koma munthu amene akuvutika ndi chinachake ndipo akusowa thandizo. Mu ichi, psychotherapy imasiyana ndi kulankhulana kwina kulikonse, imapanga maubwenzi omwe sapezeka kwina kulikonse. Kodi nchifukwa ninji wodwala nthaŵi zambiri amagwa m’chikondi ndi wochiritsayo? Titha kulankhula zambiri zokhuza kusamutsa, kusamvana… Koma wodwala amangolowa muubwenzi womwe sanakhalepo nawo, ubale wachikondi chenicheni. Ndipo amafuna kuwasunga pa mtengo uliwonse. Maubwenzi awa ndi amtengo wapatali kwambiri, izi ndizo zomwe zimapangitsa kuti psychotherapist imve munthu ndi zochitika zake.
Kumayambiriro kwenikweni kwa zaka za m’ma 1990 ku St. Koma tsopano, zaka zambiri pambuyo pake, adakumbukira izi - ndipo tsopano sangathe kukhala nazo. Anafotokoza vutoli momveka bwino: "Sindingathe kukhala nawo." Kodi ntchito ya akatswiri ndi yotani? Osati kumuthandiza kudzipha, kumpereka kwa apolisi kapena kumutumiza kuti alape pamaadiresi onse a ozunzidwa. Ntchito ndikuthandizira kumveketsa zomwe mwakumana nazo nokha ndikukhala nazo. Ndi momwe angakhalire ndi zomwe angachite pambuyo pake - adzasankha yekha.
Ndiko kuti, psychotherapy pankhaniyi imachotsedwa poyesa kupanga munthu kukhala wabwino?
VC.: Kupanga munthu kukhala wabwino si ntchito ya psychotherapy konse. Ndiye tiyeni tikweze nthawi yomweyo chishango cha eugenics. Komanso, ndi kupambana komwe kulipo mu uinjiniya wa majini, ndizotheka kusintha ma jini atatu apa, kuchotsa anayi pamenepo ... Ndipo zonse mwakamodzi zidzakhala zabwino kwambiri - zabwino kwambiri moti ngakhale Orwell sakanatha kulota. Psychotherapy sikutanthauza zimenezo konse.
Ndinganene izi: aliyense amakhala moyo wake, ngati kuti adzikongoletsa yekha pansalu. Koma nthawi zina zimachitika kuti mumamatira singano - koma ulusi suutsatira: umakhala wopindika, pali mfundo. Kumasula mfundo iyi ndi ntchito yanga ngati psychotherapist. Ndipo ndi mtundu wanji wapatani womwe ulipo - sikwa ine kusankha. Munthu amabwera kwa ine pamene chinachake mu chikhalidwe chake chikusokoneza ufulu wake kudzisonkhanitsa yekha ndi kukhala yekha. Ntchito yanga ndi kumuthandiza kuti apezenso ufulu umenewo. Kodi ndi ntchito yosavuta? Ayi. Koma - wokondwa.